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* Ways of Reinforcing and Evolving

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* Ways of Reinforcing and Evolving

Postby SentinelOrange » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:51 pm

Since there are many posts, tips, and the such from everyone I wanted to condense all ideas here.

As far as I can tell there are 4 thought processes on reinforcing and evolving.

Code: Select all
Reminder:
s = stage
L = level
s1L50 = stage 1 level 50 creature
s3Lmax = stage 3 level max creature


1. The "Royal Way" : reinforce each stage to max level, and evolve with a max leveled stage 1 card. This takes the most time, but nets you a 10% bonus per evolution to next stage card.
s1Lmax+s1Lmax> s2Lmax+s1Lmax> s3Lmax+s1Lmax > s4Lmax


2. The "Smart Way" : evolve the card to Stage 3 then reinforce this card to max level, then evolve it with a max level stage 1 card.
This nets you one 10% bonus and three 5% bonuses.
s1L1+s1L1 > s2L1+s1L1 > s3Lmax+s1Lmax> s4Lmax


3. The "Speedy Way" : evolve all cards to stage 4, then max level this card.
This nets you a 5% bonus per evolution.
s1L1+s1L1 > s2L1+s1L1 > s3L1+s1L1 > s4Lmax


4. The "Alternate Way" : reinforce each stage to around level 15, then evolve with another around level 15, then stage 4 card reinforce to max level.
This nets you a 5% bonus per evolution.
s1Lxx+s1Lxx > s2Lxx+s1Lxx > s3Lxx+s1Lxx > s4Lmax
Last edited by Corwin9s on Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Reinforcing and Evolving

Postby SentinelOrange » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:04 am

Okay this is my opinions on each

Type 1
I only do for 4* cards, as you have time to get max bonuses from these cards, cause you dont get many, unless you pay to summon.

Type 2
Seems overall a solid strategy

Type 3
I think is good for those just starting when an event is going on.

Type 4
This is what I prefer, and believe I brought this one to the table.

So I can give a better explanation on why I do this.

I only use the level 15 as a minimum, sometimes Ill have a card for a little bit so Ill take it to whatever level I can before I get the next card, which generally during an event if I get another card I can evolve and its counterpart is active in my deck, I wait till after the event.

Either way doing this only gets you a 5% bonus each evolution, but the additional points you get from the 5% this way is higher, and getting a card to lvl 15 is easy.

Id like to see what the general consensus is for this way try it out see what you think

Any comments welcome
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Re: Reinforcing and Evolving

Postby klayteo » Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:20 am

I agree on point no.1
Why wasted the greater potential for a 4 star. At the least I will go with option no. 2 since how often you get a 4 star.. and of the same creature somemore. I might not be able to use immediately and have to rely on creatures evolved via faster way like no.3

For no.4
I just don't know the formula to arrive at the next stage stats.
Example
I got two stage1lvl45 vodianoi evolve at stage 2 lvl1 with below stats
HP 1610
Atk 3037

Stage1lvl1
Hp 883
Atk 1634

Stage1lvl45
HP 3639
Atk 6732

The atk is increased by 1403.. how to arrive at this figure I'm totally clueless..If I'm applying 10% inheritance.. the stage2lvl1 atk should be 1634 + ((6732 * 0.1) * 2) = 2980

Since you guys says non maxed creature shoul inherit 5% then I should arrived at stage2 with even much lower atk than 2980.
But I ended up wt atk of 3037

Any clue?
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Re: Reinforcing and Evolving

Postby klayteo » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:39 pm

I think my questions should be answered after reading the other thread on experiment.
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Re: Reinforcing and Evolving

Postby SentinelOrange » Wed Jan 23, 2013 9:29 pm

Do to the other thread I may reword my original post, I was just pointing out a few strategies ppl are using
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Re: Reinforcing and Evolving

Postby klayteo » Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:30 am

After reviewing rusty's excell sheet and doing some calculation on the expected inheritance bonus and final stats.. it finally come to my senses for the following:

1. Each stage has their own base stats and no matter which stage you reinforce or how max you level up.. it will not change.
2. This means the inheritance bonus will come from previous stage base stats + whatever inheritance bonus carry forward + level up stats in that stage.
It's important to know what is the increase per level for that particular stage so you can calculate the max accumulated stats to be inherited over the next stage.
3. To sum it up and make it easy.. the best way to get max creature is stage3lv50+stage1lv50.
Simple.. you inherit 10% when it evolve to stage4.
Whatever you have reinforce in stage2 will only show up as 1% in stage 4
Whatever you reinforce in stage1 will show up as 0.1% in stage 4.

4. Since the max of any creatures in stage 1 will not exceed say ATK 10, 000
Its safe to say the max inherited bonus from your stage 1 will contribute at most is 10+10 in stage 4.
Its definitely not worth reinforcing any creature prior to evolution to level 2.
Example.. earth mage has stage1lvl50 Atk of 8020. This means if I reinforce to max then evolve 2 maxed stage1lvl50. . The inherited bonus when it finally pass down to stage 4 will only become about 16, in stage 3 about 160, in stage 2 is a lot at about 1604.
If you really want a better stats than the more acceptable stage3lv50+stage1lvl50.. then do reinforcement in stage 2.
Say max atk in stage2 is about 13-14k.. you could top up another 130 to 140 in stage 4.
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Re: Reinforcing and Evolving

Postby Vyntr » Wed Jan 30, 2013 2:27 am

Kalteo, I used to think the same. Inheritance from any stage before 3 is not worth it because you essentially only get 10% of a 5% of a 5%. However the reinforcement increase is based on a creature's current Stat. So if a creature gains 1000 stat from a max lvl stage one it will be magnified while reinforcing to max level stage 2. Using some of the formulae on the forums it is actually possible to calculate how much of stage 1 stat matters at LVL 65 Stage 4:

your final advanced creature's atk/hp will feature 2.269 times stage 1 Lvl 1 Atk/hp. (when reinforced at each stage)

or Your final Lvl 65 Creature will feature 226.9% of its base Lvl 1 Stage 1 Atk/HP as inheritance from the Stage 1 reinforcement and evolution (if reinforced at all stages)

So for earth mage the base Atk at Lvl 1 is 1788... So if we reinforce from Stage 1 onwards the resulting inheritance from Stage 1 will translate to 4057.

However if we dont evolve before Stage 4 the gain from Stage 1 will only be 258 (i.e 14.45%)
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Re: Reinforcing and Evolving

Postby klayteo » Wed Jan 30, 2013 4:23 pm

Vyntr.. sounds a bit complicated for me to understand :P
If that is the case.. would you able to estimate what is final stats for earth mage?

I personally keep some intermediate stats below
St1lv1
HP 966
ATK 1788

St1lv50
HP 4314
ATK 8021

St2lv1
HP 1495
ATK 2611

St2lv2
HP 1594
ATK 2815

St3lv1
HP 1653
ATK 3150

St3lv5
HP 2081
ATK 3959

St4lv1
HP 1863
ATK 3408

So what is the expected stats for st4lv65 when max since from

St1
HP?
ATK?

St2
Hp?
Atk?

St3
Hp 8868
Atk 16396

St4
Hp 7865
Atk 14510
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Re: Reinforcing and Evolving

Postby itsfranky » Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:43 pm

From what I understand if it's 1788 start st1/lvl1, then max reinforcing before evolving up to stage4 level 1, the atk will be 4057 (assuming 2.269 multiplier), as opposed to what it normally is at st4/lvl1 (3408).

It's anybody's guess at this point if the multiplier is dead set at 2.269, and what the final max for each monster is.
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Re: Reinforcing and Evolving

Postby klayteo » Fri Feb 01, 2013 12:26 am

Itsfranky.. answer should be in the 'experiment' thread.. though one still need to get 2 stats.. which is the base stats for every evolution stage as it is different (which we simply minus out the added hp and atk bonus inherited after every evolution) and the level incremental multiplier.
Which is the increases stats fr one level to next higher level.

This formula seemed to be consistent in getting all the final expected stats provided you have those base stats and each stage levelling up stats.
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Re: Reinforcing and Evolving

Postby klingen » Sat Feb 02, 2013 6:29 am

Wrong thread
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Re: Reinforcing and Evolving

Postby Vyntr » Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:34 pm

Upon experimentation i realized I was wrong. The Stat increase per level is independent of the creature's Current stat. E.G. A Priestess at evolved directly will gain the same amount of Stat as a Priestess painstakingly reinforced and evolved at each stage, as long as they are both at the same stage.

This means the inheritance of each stage will keep mattering less and less as you further evolve. So at stage 4 the only inheritance that really matters is the Lvl 3 one.
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Re: Reinforcing and Evolving

Postby klayteo » Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:43 pm

Vyntr wrote:Upon experimentation i realized I was wrong. The Stat increase per level is independent of the creature's Current stat. E.G. A Priestess at evolved directly will gain the same amount of Stat as a Priestess painstakingly reinforced and evolved at each stage, as long as they are both at the same stage.

This means the inheritance of each stage will keep mattering less and less as you further evolve. So at stage 4 the only inheritance that really matters is the Lvl 3 one.

Exactly that was the hottest strategy discussed in the 'experiment' thread.
Stage 2 still give some boost but since its diluted to 100 fold.. at max probably another additional 140-150 for atk (p.uadjit, varick, vodianoi, chimera)

More of aesthetic boost than practical.. sometimes that hundred could boost your atk figure fr 15k to 16k atk. :evil:
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Re: Reinforcing and Evolving

Postby Heat » Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:20 am

Does evolving max level stage 3 with max level stage 3 do anything?
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Re: Reinforcing and Evolving

Postby klingen » Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:22 am

Heat wrote:Does evolving max level stage 3 with max level stage 3 do anything?

Impossible, you can only evolve with stage 1.
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Re: Reinforcing and Evolving

Postby Heat » Thu Feb 21, 2013 1:31 am

klingen wrote:
Heat wrote:Does evolving max level stage 3 with max level stage 3 do anything?

Impossible, you can only evolve with stage 1.

Thanks for the quick reply!
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Re: Ways of Reinforcing and Evolving

Postby Corwin9s » Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:12 am

Updated first post and added names to the ways of evolving :

1. The "Royal Way" :
s1Lmax+s1Lmax> s2Lmax+s1Lmax> s3Lmax+s1Lmax > s4Lmax

2. The "Smart Way" :
s1L1+s1L1 > s2L1+s1L1 > s3Lmax+s1Lmax> s4Lmax

3. The "Speedy Way" :
s1L1+s1L1 > s2L1+s1L1 > s3L1+s1L1 > s4Lmax

4. The "Alternate Way" :
s1Lxx+s1Lxx > s2Lxx+s1Lxx > s3Lxx+s1Lxx > s4Lmax

:idea:

Code: Select all
Reminder:
s = stage
L = level
s1L50 = stage 1 level 50 creature
s3Lmax = stage 3 level max creature
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Re: Ways of Reinforcing and Evolving

Postby dezmon » Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:42 am

Hi, i have a question.
Is it better to reinforce with 4 3stars cards or combine those 4 into a 4stars card then reinforce with it.
I am thinking is 4 3stars card more exp to gain or a single 4stars card.
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Re: Ways of Reinforcing and Evolving

Postby Corwin9s » Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:27 am

Look here : http://hellfire.ninesages.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=508

With "Smart Way" : S4Lmax = 6014 HP / 7117 Atk (already with inheritage +755 HP / +915 Atk )
With "Speedy Way" : S4Lmax = 5259 HP / 6202 Atk

Difference:
HP +785 using "Smart Way"
Atk +915 using "Smart Way"

so it's better to use the "Smart Way"
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Re: Ways of Reinforcing and Evolving

Postby dezmon » Wed Mar 06, 2013 11:45 am

Think i rephrase my question again. I made it too complex :oops:
Is a 3 stars R card worth more in exp for reinforcing or using 4 separate cards of 2 stars card worth more in exp for reinforcing.

In other words shld i evolve my cards before using them to reinforce fodder :?:
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