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This limit of 10 bosses.... !

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This limit of 10 bosses.... !

Postby Corwin9s » Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:00 pm

since the new event n°41 "Halloween", the limit of unclaimed bosses is set to 10. This will not count the bosses for which help is requested, only the one you catch.

Please, report here your deception,...
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Re: [Current] Halloween

Postby Illuminist » Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:41 pm

Last event was fairly balanced between payers and free plays. We'll have to see the stats of the common elite but this one is already looking like heavy bias towards the payers.

A consequence of reducing the boss list to 10 unrelated to banking is that it will slow the game right down. Remember all those times when your boss list got filled with lvl50s, tagged lvl46s with no damage, and your own lvl46 spawns? Well now if you get that blockade happening, you'll have to clear it yourself or be locked out of lvl100s until they start expiring. And since everyone can only hold 10 bosses now, I have a feeling their system will reach a limit where they don't have enough online players to hold all the bosses being shared. Anticipate some structural breakage this event.

And with BEs now coming at a premium, soloing a lvl100 is probably not an option, and having them not finish is going to be extremely frustrating. Anticipating a lot of anger, and wonder how Dena will handle the backlash...
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Re: This limit of 10 bosses.... !

Postby Corwin9s » Tue Oct 29, 2013 11:54 pm

please only HERE for talking about this limit.
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Re: This limit of 10 bosses.... !

Postby isusdfr » Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:11 am

This really sucks, obviously some high level payers got upset because someone who doesnt fork out a couple of hundred dollars per event broke into the top 50.....
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Re: This limit of 10 bosses.... !

Postby pureheartbear » Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:25 am

isusdfr wrote:This really sucks, obviously some high level payers got upset because someone who doesnt fork out a couple of hundred dollars per event broke into the top 50.....


Has nothing to do with that... The top players also banked...
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Re: This limit of 10 bosses.... !

Postby pureheartbear » Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:26 am

Image

HF response to the comments about the changes. Personally I find it hard to believe it's due to performance issues of the server when people have been banking bosses for a while now...
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Re: This limit of 10 bosses.... !

Postby isusdfr » Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:38 am

pureheartbear wrote:
isusdfr wrote:This really sucks, obviously some high level payers got upset because someone who doesnt fork out a couple of hundred dollars per event broke into the top 50.....


Has nothing to do with that... The top players also banked...


actually yes you are quite correct, just annoyed that a very good strategy has been wiped out...
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Re: This limit of 10 bosses.... !

Postby locksley » Wed Oct 30, 2013 10:07 am

Well...

This is undoubly a pain in the xxx... Nevertheless, to be honest I find hard to believe that this move on mobage's part hardly surprises anyone.
The lv0 banking strategy was obviously a 'creative use' of game mechanics (I'd say in the verge of being an exploit), using an unintended behavior by the game makers. And it was just a matter of time before they made their move.
It was good while it lasted, but now it is time to devise more 'conventional' approaches to early Raid times.

L
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Re: This limit of 10 bosses.... !

Postby Sirguda » Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:28 pm

It's the end for non-payer players. The only way is to stack 10/20/30 bosses on each raid and do nothing else, and play seriously one event a year. Shame.
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Re: This limit of 10 bosses.... !

Postby Mon4rg » Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:56 pm

well as i said somewhere before its bug abusing and this self called "strategy" is exactly bug abusing. u can put it in nice words like: " 'creative use' of game mechanics (I'd say in the verge of being an exploit), using an unintended behavior by the game makers" but in all other games it goes under that 2 simply words. in all other games u are getting BAN permamently or temporary. it was a matter of time when it this happen cos mobage was loosing a lot cos hardly very less players were ordering BE, most of them was focused on energy refill.
dont get me wrong i am not happy about their move, i was using BE "strategy" in last 3-4 events. i cant imagine situation now. It might be problem for so many ppl atm to finish lvl 100. and if they fail with that they will be very, very frustrated. with arround 70-80 be from rewards +20-40 from stacked lvl 0 bosses it gives u very less in total. however u can dream about being able to compete for top positions. SO since now BOTH events are fully reserved for payers. For sure its end of this game, they just destroyed last good part of it. PPl actually liked a lot RB event. and i am still thinkng about progress in deck for free players, with less be is less gold medals and that means even smaller chance to get common SR cards.
If they dont change % to get multiplier cards/rare cards and sr from summons then for sure many will quit. or we need more BE from rewards from bosses, for sure we need something extra if they decided to cut off our storage.
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Re: This limit of 10 bosses.... !

Postby Jamroud » Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:29 pm

this is such a pathetic way to deny free players a chance at a good ranking.
and the excuse they use makes it even worse, this was indeed the only thing free players had going for them.
to change the bosses from no limit to 10 thats just rude! at least they could have lowered it to 100 and see big change in bandwith, IF this is true with i dont believe is.

im gonna stick around to see if they are gonna reverse it or else im done with this game!
i guess at some point we should hold a petition on the uservoice website...
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Re: This limit of 10 bosses.... !

Postby Sirguda » Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:55 pm

It will drastically reduce the number of boss fight that a free player can do.
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Re: This limit of 10 bosses.... !

Postby CubedCodeMonkey » Wed Oct 30, 2013 6:55 pm

I feel like I'm one of the few, if not the only free player that doesn't see this change as a bad one in the long run. Sure, us free players will have to bank a few raids before making a push, but honestly, who cares? A paying player should consistently place higher than a free player - a free player should not be able to consistently (read: every raid event) rank up in the top with paying players. The paying players are spending their time and money - they should have a better chance at the top rewards.

I see a couple benefits to this change.

1) Free players (and paying players, but to a lesser degree) will have to think more about when they make their push. They can save their BE for rewards they want/need and not just go after every top reward they can.

2) The ranking near the end of the event will be a lot more transparent. Now, what I mean by this is that there will potentially be fewer bosses banked waiting to be claimed as the event goes on, which in turn will cause fewer massive jumps in placement among those trying to rank. This will let all players pushing have a better (not perfect, but better) idea of where they'll stand and whether or not they'll make their target rank. There will be a reduced chance of being pushed out of your ranking goal due to other people claiming.

3) All players will have to use their BE in a controlled manner. This can be a pro or a con depending on your perspective, but I personally like the approach of analyzing a situation and methodically tackling it rather than throwing everything and its mother at the objective.

I never considered this boss stacking to be a bug, as the functionality was built in directly. This is different than the fixed AJ glitch in dungeons, as that was abusing and benefiting from a known glitch rather than utilizing the intended functionality for alternative purposes. While it wasn't a bug, I do think that it was unintended use, and I'm not surprised that steps were taken to correct it.

As in all games, this change happened. Some people are upset, some people are happy, and some people don't care. Without having numbers in front of me, I'm assuming the size of the population that took advantage of the stacking was less than 10% of the player base, but that's only speculation. I don't think this will make or break the game or the experience by any means. It is a change, it will take adjustment, some people will quit because of it, other people will constantly complain.

I will adapt. I will continue to enjoy the game as a free and relatively casual player, and I will hope some positive changes come down the road. This change is not the end of the world or the game as we know it - it's just different, and I for one, and curious to see what happens next.
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Re: This limit of 10 bosses.... !

Postby tattoochanges » Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:30 pm

CubedCodeMonkey wrote:I will adapt. I will continue to enjoy the game as a free and relatively casual player, and I will hope some positive changes come down the road. This change is not the end of the world or the game as we know it - it's just different, and I for one, and curious to see what happens next.


This game has CONSTANTLY changed the last 34 events, almost every event has had a bug, hack or change....seems mostly we keep on playin
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Re: This limit of 10 bosses.... !

Postby Zergster » Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:53 pm

CubedCodeMonkey wrote:I feel like I'm one of the few, if not the only free player that doesn't see this change as a bad one in the long run. Sure, us free players will have to bank a few raids before making a push, but honestly, who cares? A paying player should consistently place higher than a free player - a free player should not be able to consistently (read: every raid event) rank up in the top with paying players. The paying players are spending their time and money - they should have a better chance at the top rewards.

I see a couple benefits to this change.

1) Free players (and paying players, but to a lesser degree) will have to think more about when they make their push. They can save their BE for rewards they want/need and not just go after every top reward they can.

2) The ranking near the end of the event will be a lot more transparent. Now, what I mean by this is that there will potentially be fewer bosses banked waiting to be claimed as the event goes on, which in turn will cause fewer massive jumps in placement among those trying to rank. This will let all players pushing have a better (not perfect, but better) idea of where they'll stand and whether or not they'll make their target rank. There will be a reduced chance of being pushed out of your ranking goal due to other people claiming.

3) All players will have to use their BE in a controlled manner. This can be a pro or a con depending on your perspective, but I personally like the approach of analyzing a situation and methodically tackling it rather than throwing everything and its mother at the objective.

I never considered this boss stacking to be a bug, as the functionality was built in directly. This is different than the fixed AJ glitch in dungeons, as that was abusing and benefiting from a known glitch rather than utilizing the intended functionality for alternative purposes. While it wasn't a bug, I do think that it was unintended use, and I'm not surprised that steps were taken to correct it.

As in all games, this change happened. Some people are upset, some people are happy, and some people don't care. Without having numbers in front of me, I'm assuming the size of the population that took advantage of the stacking was less than 10% of the player base, but that's only speculation. I don't think this will make or break the game or the experience by any means. It is a change, it will take adjustment, some people will quit because of it, other people will constantly complain.

I will adapt. I will continue to enjoy the game as a free and relatively casual player, and I will hope some positive changes come down the road. This change is not the end of the world or the game as we know it - it's just different, and I for one, and curious to see what happens next.


CCM, you have made some very good points in regards to the newly implemented changes. I'd like to share/comment in accordance to your points.

Paying players deserve top ranks as they indeed invest more time and money into the game. I agree fully, though I would like to comment on possible incentives that HF could still offer to free players to retain their interest and motivation, after all paying players are converted from free players who anticipate performance boost via financial investment. I do think the current reward setup is highly in favor of paying players, thus discouraging free players to challenge and to seek improvement. With the removal of stratigic BE conservation approach commonly practiced by both paying and free players, the gap between the paying and free players is further widened. HF shall improve reward offered in mid-low tiers (T201 and lower) so that free players can at least constantly "participate" all events, not necessarily push to win.

About the 10-boss limit and its impact on transparency of rank, I still believe that top players who are capable to steal MVPs can still bank quite a few if they want, as there is no upper limit on the quantity of assisted/stolen bosses stored in the list. I have persoanlly tested and confirmed it. That being said, the player does have to monitor his/her list closely to identify which victories are from 3rd party.

The BE spending management is primarily practiced among players with good knowledge of Raid, and more often, by rankers. Players who had no prior knowledge on this subject(stratigic BE accumulation) will continue to spend as they receive, limit of 10 or 200 does not make any difference to them, tagging is still the same. On the other hand, people who had experienced benefits from it will change their spending manner, as you mentioned, not throwing at everything. BE is more precious now, and players will think twice before action in many cases. Dont want to sound selfish here, though I anticipate one habitual change, which is whether players are as willing to assist an ally when their LB shows up on your screen? I was throwing an orb to assist most of my allies, especially allies I talk in the forum, when their LB shows up on my screen. Logic behind was simple, just 1 BE and I'll gain that back farming next one. Now with the efficiency of BE stocking greatly cut, are we still the same? I hope we are. I wont blame any of my allies if you skip my LB, I know most of you have bigger goals, a cheer for it to finish in time is all I am asking.

Another potential issue from these recent changes is that players wont be able to level/evolve their prized cards as quickly. Straight comparasion from the boss-limit change perspective, 200 to 10 (for the ease of calculation, I use 200 instead of 214 possible number), you are seeing bronze summons go down from 2200 to 110, which is 2090 in fodders reduction. I dont have to mention about the recent change in Dungeons. I am kindly suggesting players to think twice before reinfocing a card, make the most out of the least.

Dont quit yet, as I strongly believe HF will implement more changes to compensate the things they took away. Hopefully it's coming soon.

All the best!
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Re: This limit of 10 bosses.... !

Postby isusdfr » Thu Oct 31, 2013 1:14 am

Cubedcodemonkey, you may be right and maybe 10% used this strategy. It may have been higher. I only started playing the game about a month ago. First thing i did was do a google search for hellfire forums and since this is pretty much the only one i found this site instantly. Another 20 mins of reading posts and i knew of the strategy.

But think about this. Now Mobage has put a big message up in the game "you can only store 10 bosses". Maybe now the people that were not using this strategy are going to think "what the hell does that mean?" and they are gonna go looking for answers. And where will they look? they will do a google search and find this fourm, or they will look on the facebook page.

Now before this change occured I couldnt find anyone on the facebook page outlining the BE strategy, now there are posts all over the place about it.

So maybe just maybe this may occur. Whereas before (lets use your example) 10% of players used this strategy and banked say 50-100 bosses, now maybe 20%...30% of people know and will tell there friends who play pushing the number higher..so if all of these people who now know of this strategy start banking 10 or 20 bosses..what will that do to the game speed issue????? It could end up making it worse......
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Re: This limit of 10 bosses.... !

Postby lili_marlene » Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:48 am

So, this is it?
Bunch of usual answers for "stealing" free BEs. Speaking in the name of non-payers (and I WONT pay a single cent for this game): would 1 (ONE) large battle potion a day be such a problem? It's getting worse. First, AJ trading, now this. You would say: "but hey! you had played your game before you found out there was something like BEs banking". Ok, I had. But then my deck was kinda poor and all those rares were opening new doors, new possibilities. Now I'm sick of golems, buncles, djinns, sins etc. I'm even sick of priestesses, snow queens, varicks, vodianois etc, because I ALREADY HAVE THEM done mostly 2+1+1 and I was so happy (2 raids ago) with that freshness of gods as silver summons and, well it got back to normal.. golem, golem, buncle, djinn, obsession, golem, jealousy, buncle..

And seriously? Elite shifter??? Great! What else guys?

I'm disappointed. And yes, I will play, because it's still my baby game, but I'm disappointed and in the near future, as silver summons, I expect uncommons only.

Happy Halloween
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Re: This limit of 10 bosses.... !

Postby lili_marlene » Thu Oct 31, 2013 6:14 pm

Sirguda wrote:It's the end for non-payer players. The only way is to stack 10/20/30 bosses on each raid and do nothing else, and play seriously one event a year. Shame.


True, but I wouldn't call it "the end". Those who didn't know about farming will game on as nothing happened, only those who used to farm (shame on me, I did ONLY twice cause of n-e-v-e-r-e-n-d-i-n-g event called Dungeons) will lose their hopes for staying in TOP 1000 or even reaching it.

It's not "the end", it's only "disaster".
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Re: This limit of 10 bosses.... !

Postby Venom » Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:46 am

Hi all.

I'm a fairly new player. How were people farming BE before this limit? I don't understand....
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Re: This limit of 10 bosses.... !

Postby shortkeeper » Sun Nov 03, 2013 5:02 am

My main issue is the deliberate lies told by the hellfire team.

The server issues that players directly found were a result of the LB sessions they used to have, no server issues were ever found to occur at the start or outside of the LB sessions in general. They fixed this by making a positive change for all time zones in changing the LB sessions to the LB weekend, thus giving all players almost equal access to the LB time-period. This doesn't mean there wasn't unseen server issues are the player base increases, just that we know where the real bottle-neck occured.

Enter current scenario. You are limited to 10 of your own bosses but unlimited bosses of others in your list at the start when there was no reported server issues and increased to 20 when the gold bearing bosses came out and still present during the whole of the LB summoning period when we know the server issues were known. So we know we cannot store bosses at the start due to low storage of numbers but the servers are not truly struggling but when you think they are struggling they increase the number of bosses you can store.... makes sense right? Limit players making resources early and allow them to spend more later.... all on the back of a lie.

Now to cap this off they sweeten the deal by giving out free increases in the number of creatures you can hold.... but doesn't this take up server resources?

How they could have handled this:

- Changed the limit to 20 of your own and 50 others for the whole event. Bosses that are yours are identified, even if in Victory status. Limbo is disabled since your bosses are labelled.

- Same limits above except bosses are not labelled, enable limbo. What limbo allows the player to know is when they reached their limit since the boss is still summoned, otherwise the player could do 4 or 5 missions before realising they are are their boss limit

- Same limits above except limbo is disabled but when you go to do a mission it warns you that your boss limit is full and no further bosses will be summoned. SImple and easy.

What this does is makes it all very clear to the player where they stand with the limit. It makes the boss limit less of a sham since it is 20 the whole event and it places a limit on the number of ally bosses you can store as well. Also on the 20 bosses, who here was told that it was from the start of the gold bearing bosses? *crickets chirping*
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