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Hello! New Player! Lookin for raid advice!

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Hello! New Player! Lookin for raid advice!

Postby antwon06 » Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:26 am

Hi all! Been playin for only a month now and played a couple of events, love playin (level 93) so far, and love the forums but needed clarification on the subject of elites.. how exactly do they benefit you in raid events?? I notice some talk that they help reinforcing and some talk how they help with battling actual bosses, should I be using elites in my deck to attack bosses? Plz help! Thanks, antwon06
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Re: Hello! New Player! Lookin for raid advice!

Postby antwon06 » Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:30 am

and if I should use these in my deck what is the best composition of elites to my normal cards and or upgrading these elites!
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Re: Hello! New Player! Lookin for raid advice!

Postby pureheartbear » Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:42 am

Elites are the way to go for Raids because you get either 3x/4x the amount of attack and HP... Plus there are times when the rare Elite has a high enough attack like Gluttony where you will keep it in your deck after the Raid is over. The good thing about Elites that they reinforce 3x quicker than regular cards. So you can quickly get decent cards for your deck.

Even when the atk of an elite isn't the greatest like the last Raid, where the atk only hit 10k... x3 that would equal 30k, plus if it hit the right seal you would get double that amount... Which is more than you'd get with most cards a newbie might have. Plus you will get the bonus hp which helps with not dying during certain bosses. There are times that I don't even use most of my epics, especially when the Elite has a high attack.

Using Elites with Rewinds are the way to go. Most people use at least 3-5 rewinders.
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Re: Hello! New Player! Lookin for raid advice!

Postby antwon06 » Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:50 am

Thanks for the great response I had now idea that elites leveled up faster too! as far as the rewind tip goes I have some good rewind cards but are they all created equal, do all slow card abilities make the timer go up on bosses or does it have to be a certain slow card, I notice my Alarias makes the timer go up (description increase turn counter) but will it work with a delay card like my tiera the eternal where it says delay the enemy attack two turns??
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Re: Hello! New Player! Lookin for raid advice!

Postby Hazardz » Mon Jan 06, 2014 2:59 am

Rewind and cage work very very differently on raid bosses.

Rewind adds 4 seconds to the clock for every seal that is rewound. For Alarias this will mean 4-20 secs added (Alarias was bugged last 2 events so added more time than that but it may be fixed now). A normal rewind card like Varick will only add 4-8 sec because it can at most hit 2 seals. Alarias is the second best card vs raid bosses in the game, only Shapeshifter is better.

Cage only seems to have an effect when all active seals are caged. We are not totally sure that is the case but assume it is correct. With Tiera only having a single activation you can observe what it does for us and add to our knowledge of cage. You should look out for the clock pausing when the boss attacks or maybe a pause and 4 secs added to clock.

In general rewinds are far more effective and reliable.
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Re: Hello! New Player! Lookin for raid advice!

Postby antwon06 » Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:11 am

great to know, I'll check out the stone cage and see if it has any effect but great to know exactly how the rewinds work, I do remember the last event Alarias was gettin me like +30 secs I was on cloud nine! (Afterthought that would be a good username or forum topic name cloudninesages) idk lol.. but I have spent a little mullah to get some cards, havent maxed em yet but I think I know how I'll set my deck up now, my best and only real rewind card are Alarias ev2, shapeshifter ev2, King Arthur ev2, and grimkhala ev 4..! Any tips on which row I should put these for mass rewind effect? Or should I go with the one color row method and make em work that way?
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Re: Hello! New Player! Lookin for raid advice!

Postby Hazardz » Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:31 am

You have some superb rewind cards there and you can most likely just use those and then 4-5 elites for dmg.

My advice would be to put Alarias and Shapeshifter into a row with another fire card. The KA and Grim into a row with either an elite or whatever your highest death or earth atk card is. The last row would be the elite row that you prioritize as the dmg row( this row should be your top row so it can hit the maximum amount of times per attack).
Some quick numbers to show how important the elites are. Assume an avg elite with 13k atk and 13k HP. 3x 13k is near enough 40k so with the x4 bonus thats 160k. With a 3 BE attack you get a x5 bonus for 800k dmg...against opposite seal that is doubled and +50% for a crit and for one orb it is possible to deal 2.4m dmg. All the rewind cards give you extra time to throw that elite orb as many times as possible and deal massive dmg.

Shapeshifter is a truly special card so you can experiment with him and other rewinds mixed with elites to find what combination works best for you. You may want to try SS+Alarias+Grim and then 6 elites for the fastest possible dmg and steal LBs.
Until we know what elites will be available and the bosses seal combinations it is hard to advise any more.

With a half decent common rare elite you should expect to be able to do 50m+ dmg with a 3 BE attack on the Lvl100s. You will have a lot of fun with those cards so experiment and work out what works best for you.

P.s. You should not bother with the useless 2 star elites, they will be just food for your other cards. Only the 3 star rare elites are of any use to you ..... and the 4 star SR of course but you most likely do not have to buy tiers with the cards you already have.
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Re: Hello! New Player! Lookin for raid advice!

Postby pureheartbear » Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:33 am

I would put Alarias and SS in the first row as you will have the most chances for it to proc (activate), especially with SS that has unlimited proc's. You could put Grimmy in the top row with Ala and SS, and king arthur in the second row...
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Re: Hello! New Player! Lookin for raid advice!

Postby pureheartbear » Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:41 am

Getting a good couple healers will also help to beat some of the higher level bosses without dying... Without healers you will die with a ton of time left... Even with SS I barely could kill 46ers with 2be without dying.
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Re: Hello! New Player! Lookin for raid advice!

Postby antwon06 » Mon Jan 06, 2014 3:52 am

you guys rock! my only healer I have high right now is Ariel the fallen ev2 maxed out hp 11,4 atk 14,8 and a sekhmet ev 4 lvl 1 with some potential ill prob throw in the Ariel card with my rewinds and play around with it.. I'm lookin to play this next raid event hard and smart so I appreciate all these tips and deck advice, I got some be stacked up too from my "startup" purchases, about 81 BP, not sure if I'm gonna use these this round and go for leaderboards or use this next event to max some cards and hoard some more be, guess well see what the prizes are when this next event comes out tommorrow! Hope they're good!
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Re: Hello! New Player! Lookin for raid advice!

Postby antwon06 » Mon Jan 06, 2014 4:58 am

Being a noob I thought affliction and damage abilities might be good against raid bosses so I built up a lot of those cards but know I see the light!
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Re: Hello! New Player! Lookin for raid advice!

Postby Zergster » Mon Jan 06, 2014 7:42 am

Affliction and damage skills are nice to have in Dungeon events, not necessarily effective in Raid comparing to rewind skills.

Here is a "rough" comparison of some numbers to illustrate the margin in damage output with 3BE. HPs are irrelavent in most cases when attacking with 3BE, therefore not being considered here.

Card#1: S4 Walhorn Gellantara
skill: water attacks 3 targets
2+1+1 build = ATK 25,532

Card#2: S4 Vodianoi
3+1 build = ATK 15850, irrelavent, only thing matters here is her skill
skill: rewind 2 targets

Assuming Walhorn critical hit on a fire seal and skill proc and attacks 3 additional fire seals, its theoritical max damage output is:

Base attack X 3BE attack multiplier X opposing element multiplier X critical hit multiplier+ Base attack X 3BE attack multiplier X opposing element multiplier X critical hit multiplier X number of targets X skill damage multiplier

25532X5X2X1.5+25532X5X2X1.5X3X0.35 = 382980 + 402129 = 785109

Assuming Vodi's rewinde skill procs, it adds 8 seconds to the clock, and which is the average time to do one round of attack. Now let's do some conservative reverse calculation with Walhorn's max possible damage number. Assuming we now have 3 more seals (could be 4 or 5, being conservative here) to attack with the additional 3 seals rewarded by vodi's skill.

We have a total of 9 cards on the deck, our goal is to acquire the base average attack value of each card to evenly compensate warhorm's damage. We are not even considering the case where these 9 cards may have afflication/damage skills, only base atk value.

Let's assume the 9 cards/3 rows all mismatch against the subsequent 3 seals, thus require even higher atk value to compensate walhorn's damage. Other conditions remained same for the ease of calculation, same crit hit bonus

Average Base Attack required = Walhorn's damage/(number of cards X critical hit multiplier X mismatch discount X 3BE attack multiplier

785109/(9X2X0.5X5) = 785105/45 = 17,446

You would only need a deck that has 17,446 average damage to compensate powerful walhorn's best possible hit. If you sub out the mismatch discount, and instead factor in that the 9 cards having average match against the 3 seals, then the number is halved to 8723 only!

There are other scenarios which include Walhorn crit hits 2 times in one round, well, there are scenarios those 9 cards deal additional skill damage too. This is a conservative average comparison that shows how a common rewinder can trump a high attack card in raid. Hope it helps.

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